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Post by Varaven on Jan 30, 2014 2:35:39 GMT
I suppose it would be important to decide what a "specialty" is. In Star Trek, Geordi's specialty is "whatever engineering"... one day he's a warp theorist, the next day he's a seismologist. Maybe using the DOff system to define one's role would be best? I think Varaven would probably best be classified as "Geologist". Even that's pretty broad though. ETA: scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/994931_675797142441300_825840420_n.png
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Post by tess on Jan 30, 2014 16:59:21 GMT
Lol. Yeah I always found it funny that SCIENCE! is one skill set and not many varied disciplines that sometimes have nothing to do with each other.
Anyway, so Core and I talked yesterday and basically what we came up with was pretty similar to what Sersi had originally proposed: Everyone picks 1 thing they're GREAT at, 2 things they're GOOD at, and 2 things they're BAD at. And then bonuses will apply to those rolls. And we get to decide who can roll for what actions. For example: everyone can roll to use a first aid hypospray, but only a doctor can roll to perform open heart surgery. That's it. No other rules, same skill sets apply to the ships since we can just assume that a crew is only as good as her captain.
What do you think?
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Post by Varaven on Jan 31, 2014 1:16:31 GMT
I like it. The question in my mind would be "how broad/specific an area are we talking about?"
Varaven leads a terraforming crew, but I imagine that "terraforming" is way too broad, since it includes a lot of different fields. Maybe even "Geology" would be too broad... or just too broad for "Great"? I dunno.
Also, when you say they're "bad" and something, maybe you want to say "mediocre" instead? I get the impression you mean for us to be able to roll the things we're "bad" at, but not any of the things we're not listing (unless they're really generic)?
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Post by tess on Jan 31, 2014 2:13:40 GMT
I guess mediocre is more applicable than "bad" As PCs people are usually a little (or a lot) above average. So think of it more like your worst subject in school. You still know a thing or two about it, but compared to the rest of your class you're probably a little behind.
As far as specificity goes: I would say something like "Science" is too general. "Geologist" works for me since it covers a wide enough variety of situations to be useful without bleeding over into another skill. Conversly "Geology of B Class Planets as Tera forming candidates " is likely to be as specific as you would want in a career path IRL but isn't as helpful to RP situations. Nobody wants to be the Aquaman of the group and only be useful in one situation.
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Post by Core on Jan 31, 2014 3:20:29 GMT
well as for something like Terraforming no I wouldn't say it was too board... ok it dose cover a lot of stuff but it's also something that likely wouldn't come up every episode and making you take terraforimg, geology and every other little thing that would make up that field is a little unfair
personally my vote it for one great two good and only one bad BUT with the option to take up to 2 more bad thing to allow for more good things, also probably the ability to not be great at anything but have more good skills... basically to allow people to customize as long as they sick to the spirit of it and dont make an Mary Sue character or anything.
as for bad... well yeah could be mediocre instead but it's sorta getting into semantics, you can roll against those skills just a less effectively, for example Lezori is probably gonna be lacking in physical strength and fitness and would probably suffer a penalty to anything where raw strength or endurance would come into play, she can still try and shove a broken door open but she would have a harder time as a result maybe finding the task 10% harder or something as a result
on the ship front I think it would be easy to write our ships up in just the same way as we are captains
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Post by Varaven on Jan 31, 2014 4:35:38 GMT
Not committing to this, but I'd do something like:
Varaven - Master Trait: Terraformer - Secondary Traits: Diplomacy, Being Non-Humanoid - Tertiary Traits: Philosophy, Research - Things he'll invariably fail at: Melee Combat, Humanoid Psychology
Journeyman - Primary Ability: Terraforming - Secondary Abilities: Self-Sustaining, Carrier - Tertiary Abilities: Powerful Sensors, High Warp - Things the Journeyman will invariably fail at: Remaining Undetected, Atmospheric Flight
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Post by Core on Jan 31, 2014 5:05:43 GMT
well for now we will keep pondering this is other story related news I think we should try and get in some general no plot related rpz over the next week or so... this weekend let's see if we can manage a get together and celebratory drink on the station bar given we are all alive and stuff
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Post by anaxios on Jan 31, 2014 7:08:39 GMT
May I make a suggestion? If we are going to list things we're good at, we should also list at least three things we're rubbish at. For Antous, it would be.... I dunno, anything to do with math. He'd rather KILL IT WITH LASERS.
Or if you prefer, Riker was a terrible diplomat. Unless that diplomat was a woman. Then he'd ask if there was a technique to this foot washing he was unfamiliar with.
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Post by cinshadis on Jan 31, 2014 17:32:48 GMT
If I get the gist right, something like this?
Great at: - Starship battle tactics.
Good at: - Hand-to-hand combat: aikido, lirpa - Helping others overcome mental blocks (rallying spirits, helping the battle-shocked come to terms)
Bad at: - Etiquette / diplomacy / non-physical conflict resolution - Tasks requiring great patience
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Post by anaxios on Jan 31, 2014 19:42:04 GMT
Exactly. In fact, Cin's example perfectly illustrates what I would like to see. He's great at Tactics...but not great at patience. Well, sometimes tactics REQUIRE great patience. Which will win? Another idea would be the idea of specialization. Maybe you are an engineer type, and you're great at mining. But starship systems, not so much. Being great at something generally means you've neglected something else. Maybe you're really good with tactics that involve cannons, but lack skill in combat where you can only use phasers. Or, maybe you are good with photon spreads, but not so great against one enemy. To quote Fezzik, Fezzik: I just figured out why you give me so much trouble. Wesley: Why is that, do you think? Fezzik: Well, I haven't fought just one person for so long. I've been specializing in groups. Battling gangs for local charities, that kind of thing Wesley: Why should that make such a diIIFFFFFrence? Fezzik: Well... you see, you use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen people than when you only have to be worried about one. Generally, plot devices in Star Trek (and most everything else) can be lumped into three types. Man vs Nature (conditions in space or on some remote planet), Man vs Machine (something wrong with the warp drive or main computer) or Man vs. Adversary (both fighting and diplomacy), or some combination thereof. So I would propose if you want to be GREAT at something, you should probably be poor at something that falls into the same category. Good at fighting, not so good at diplomacy. Or, "Damn it, Jim, I'm a doctor, not an astrophysicist!" Just an idea; I don't play enough to have any skin in the game. And Landmark just went into alpha (oh, to have an extra hundred dollars and a computer good enough to play it on), so I don't know that this will change. So feel free to shoot my idea down. Ask Sersi how.
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Post by tess on Jan 31, 2014 20:10:25 GMT
This being a Star Trek site, I read Wesley and immediately thought Crusher. And now I can't get the image of Andre The Giant squishing Wil Wheaton out of my head.
Ken hit the nail on the head though. In addition to adding a sense of uncertainty to the RP it also create more interesting character drama and conflict.
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Post by Core on Feb 7, 2014 16:06:57 GMT
ok so this has been kicked around the officer section for a bit and no one has offered any complaints so I'm throwing this out here and as an example made up Lezori and her Ship the Hestia
Rules:
1 great skill adds a +20% to success 2 good skills add +10% 2 Bad skill takes away -10% to your change of success
This doesn't have to be written in stone and is more a guide line than anything, if people want to take more bad skills to balance out having more stuff they are good at that's fine as long as the Mary Sue alarm doesn't go off all is good
Difficulties Easy task 80-90% chance of success, most easy rolls can be ignored if someone is good or certainly if they are great at them Complex 50%... 50/50 for the unskilled but far more likely for those with some skill difficult 30% to 10% getting into the chances where you need some skill or training to hope to pull it off without really good luck success chance can go into -% so only someone really good at that skill would even have the slimiest chance of success
optional rules crit and fumble, if they get 1-5 on the 100 they pull off the task with extra awesomeness, 96 to 100 however is always a fail and usually something complicating it
Captain Lezori Korr
Great: Theoretical Sciences ((especially where they pertain to warp drive, quantum slip stream and transwarp))
Good: Starship Command ((through her symbiot she has access to the experience of a 30 year starfleet veteran so she has a great grasp of tactics and a good solid knowledge of the day to day running of a starship and management of her crew))
Diplomacy ((although she can be socially awkward at times she has an odd knack for getting diverse groups of people to listen and work together, as evidenced by her ship having an unusually high number of exchange officers and peoples from races not normally part of the fleet))
Bad: Poor physique ((although not a slob by anyone's standard Lezori has always been on the skinny side and even after a fierce workout regimen she still only just passes the basic physical requirements of starfleet and thus she has a hard time at any tasks that require raw physical strength instead of agility and dexterity, for example a long distance hike across a high gravity planet, a long climb or a hand to hand fight are all things she tends to struggle at))
Poor Ground Leadership ((Lezori although not a pacifist tends to lack the natural instincts for ground combat and tends to delegate the leadership of an awayteams where combat is highly likely to one of her more talented officers, when she has to lead her team into a firefight her tactics tend to be basic taking cover and pewpew while she thinks of something))
Special Notes: Lezori served with the OMEGA taskforce prior to her transfer to Orpheus so she has a fairly wide array of knowledge about Borg tactics and technology
USS Hestia, Vesta class Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Exploration ship
Great: Engines ((the Hestia is set up with both an enhanced Quantum slip stream dirve and a captured and adapted Borg Transwarp drive system allowing her to travel at incredible speeds and range))
Good: Main Deflector ((with a specially designed deflector and some captured borg technology to enhance the effects Hestia excels at utilizing deflector dish abilities in space encounters))
Firepower ((equipped with a full range of polaron weapons, it's own hanger bay plus a few sneaky tricks the Hestia packs an impressive punch for a science ship))
Sensors ((as a scouting ship she is equipped with a top of the line sensor suit))
Bad: Durability ((although she has first rate shields the Hestia is simply not built for long term front line combat))
State of the Art ((normally a good thing the cutting edge nature of the Hestia can also be a real draw back as she is difficult to repair and frequently needs specialized parts and it's not unheard of for things to malfunction... think Voyager and her silly Bionural gel packs for examples of why this would be an issue))
Power Levels ((The Hestia has a state of the art warp core however she also runs a lot of high end systems off it leaving her little spare power and slightly more vulnerable to power draining effect))
Ok this is an example so feel free to offer comments and suggestions on this system, I will be opening a separate thread for this once it is finalized, in the mean time if you want to throw together a quick character write up for yourselves feel free, writing up your character will not be mandatory.
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Post by ironwolf on Feb 10, 2014 12:04:05 GMT
I really would recommend using the FATE Core or the Fate Accelerated System, as Sersi suggested. The default skill list in FATE Core easily lends itself to Star Trek, with the only thing you might do is split Lore into something like Science and Medical, and rename a few skills. Since we're trying to keep this fast and light, long, unweildly skills lists are not required even if they are more "realistic." People in Trek seem to have a very wide range of competences anyways, so there's no real need to split hairs. To use a skill in FATE, you always roll 4 Fudge dice, then take that result and add it to the bonus you may (or may not) have in that skill. Fudge dice results range from +4 to -4, with the most common result (23.5% of the time) being a 0 (meaning skills are very important). The problem with Fudge dice is that they do not easily translate to the ingame 1d100 roller. The more radical option is to go with FATE Accelerated (FAE). The benefit of FAE is that it's even more streamlined, only having six "approaches" (which, as an aside, matches up with the six ship skills Core proposed) you can use: The obvious concern here is one brought up in this thread, which is "How do we make sure someone can't, via the rules, do everything?" My response would be we already have rules against godmoding, you simply apply that to the game (this is covered in the FAE rulebook by the way, I'm providing cliffnotes). For example, you could have a tactical officer and a trader both with a high Sneaky approach, but the trader isn't going to know how to operate the tactical officer's stealth module and the tac officer might not know a single thing about how to talk his way past a Romulan border patrol. I'd also rate Picard and Kirk and strongly Flashy and Forceful, for example, but in completely different ways. Stuff like this covered more in FAE, which brings in other mechanical aspects to play, but I'm cutting those out for now. In general FATE doesn't do "bad" or "poor" skills, but this may be called for with this game if we're super-streamlining things/it's a concern.
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Post by Core on Feb 10, 2014 22:53:32 GMT
main reason we dropped the FATE idea is this is just meant to be a small optional rules thing encase randomness is needed during the rpz, FATE is a fine system but as Tess pointed out this isn't meant to be a pnp game and thus anything with any sort of rules book is a little more complex than we need it too be, at most we want rules that can be understood by anyone even if they have never even looked at pnp rpg in there lives and something in which a character can be made up in 5 - 10 min tops
as for the bad skills thing, honestly I'm open to the idea of making them optional or just doing away with them altogether if people prefer as I did have trouble coming up with even 2 things Lezori wasn't so good at.
and yeah your right we already have anti godmoding rules so this is no different really
anyway please keep the feed back coming more input people throw our way the more likely we end up with something that even if it isn't perfect it's at least something we can all agree on.
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Post by ironwolf on Feb 10, 2014 23:30:54 GMT
The nice thing about FATE is you really don't need to full rulebook -- just that section I quoted there is enough to use. FATE Core would require a description of the skills but other than that the principle is the same.
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